Restoration of status denied, can I still apply for Inland Sponsorship?

[Harumi]

Hello everyone! I would appreciate any help/advice you can provide regarding my case.

Relationship background:
Met my husband on a game (WoW) and talked, as friends, through Facebook, for nearly 2 years. On 2010 I went to Québec to study and met him (still a friend, but now a major crush) in Montréal for New Year's Eve. He came all the way from BC to see me. During this holiday, we became lovers. I went to visit him in BC in March, during a break. I returned to my country, Brazil, on April. On July 2012 I came to BC to spend summer with him. Between visits, we messaged each other throughout the day and Skyped at the end of the day, with date nights every weekend. Then on June 2013 I came again for another summer, but this time he proposed to me, and, in a leap of faith, I decided to stay. I abandoned study, job, and career opportunity just so we wouldn't be separated again. I had to choose between a career in Brazil or a probably long period as a simple housewife by my husband's side, and I chose my husband. We got legally married on August 26, 2013.

Immigration paperwork timeline:
- sent an application for extension of stay on Sep 16, 2013, on paper.
- decision was made on Nov 29, 2013, but for some reason the e-mail never reached me. I check my e-mail AND spam folder everyday, and I had no communication from CIC.
- I could not book a medical exam; we live in a town in the boonies, my husband's work would not allow him to take breaks, and winter traveling is treacherous. The only time I managed to find a trustworthy doctor was Feb 20, 2014.
- In the meantime, I tried contacting CIC through phone to inquire about my case, without success. The option to talk with an agent was always an "invalid" option.
- On Feb 20, 2014, I went through medical examination, and no health problems that could hinder my application were found.
- On March 04, 2014, I managed to talk with an agent at the CIC Call Centre by chance; a loophole in the menu options. It was then when I learned of the decision and requested that the letter be sent to me on paper.
- The letter was received on March 14, 2014. My application had been denied and by then I could not apply for a restoration of status, and was required to leave the country immediately. However, no form or further orders or instructions were sent with the letter.
- I sent in the application for restoration anyway on the same day, online.
- Meanwhile, the documents for an inland spousal sponsorship were almost ready, except for the birth and police certificates and their translations. I had asked the translator to send it via a courier service, which would be paid by me, but she still did not send them as I instructed. The documents are currently (April 02, 2014) in Toronto, probably, awaiting to be sent to Vancouver, sit in Richmond for a week and then be sent to me, in this middle of nowhere where we live.
- Today I checked my application and my restoration was also refused, and I was asked to leave Canada immediately, with the following wording (same as the one in the first refusal letter I received):

You are a person in Canada without legal status and as such are required to leave
Canada immediately. If you do not leave Canada voluntarily, enforcement action may be
taken against you.

However, no form number, form, further orders or instructions were given. I have yet to receive the physical letter, if any is to be sent.

My questions:
1. Is the refusal letter a departure order?
2. How do I know it is a departure order? What does it look like? What is the wording on it?
3. Should I send in the application for inland spousal sponsorship, considering I am out of status but might still not be under a removal order?
4. Should I wait until I receive the letter or check with CIC/CBSA if I really am not under a removal order before I decide to leave?
5. Should I resolve my overstay by flagpoling to the US, taking a quick trip to Vegas or something, and then applying for spousal sponsorship?
6. When leaving, even though I have no form or formal order, should I inform an officer that I am leaving to resolve an overstay?
7. If my husband comes with me and is with me when we cross the US/Canada border, will I be accepted back in?
8. Or should I send the application for inland spousal sponsorship, flagpole to resolve the overstay and attempt to re-enter Canada by having my husband with me and showing proof that I do have a spousal sponsorship application going?
9. Will I not lose the application if I leave?
10. And should your answer to my case be "consult with a lawyer", would you be able to recommend me a trustworthy one (private message me)?

I thank in advance all who provide a good advice regarding my case.

 

[Alurra71]

Re: TRV Restoration denied, can I still apply for Inland Sponsorship?

You are in a rough situation here.

I will try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, but I am sure if you are patient, others with more knowledge will chime in as well.

1. Yes, that is essentially a departure order.
2. Simply by them telling you that you are without status and should leave Canada immediately. This is known as a departure order.
3. I would not send an INLAND application in your situation PERIOD. Your risk of being deported is too high.
4. If you wait for someone from CBSA to contact you about this situation it is likely going to be a deportation order along with an exclusion order which is going to cause a longer wait time for you in the long run.
5. I don't think flag-poling is going to work for you. You could POTENTIALLY go on a trip somewhere outside of Canada, but the odds of them allowing you re-entry are slim at this point.
6. If/when you depart Canada under your own free will rather than a deportation order, yes, I would let them know you are leaving and ask them to give you the form that says you voluntarily left. I am sorry I can't remember the exact name of that form at this moment though.
7. Traveling with your hubby helps to an extent but I don't think at this point it is going to make a difference since you have been denied extensions twice at this point. CBSA also has access to this information.
8. Again, I would NOT recommend you doing an inland application at all at this time. OUTLAND is by far a safer choice for you.
9. If you file INLAND and leave Canada, yes, you will loose your application along with, at minimum, the sponsors $75 fee because they will at least get to that point to look at their paperwork.
10. I don't know that a lawyer could help you in any way at this point and I would be leery of any lawyer that promises you that they could indeed resolve your status issues and help you stay where you are. Lawyers/consultants are NOT magicians, but they would have you believe they are. They prey on your strong desire to stay put with your spouse and to that end will promise you the moon and won't even deliver a slice of cheese


My suggestion to you. If your spouse can leave the country for a 'vacation' or something of that sort, then you can file an outland application. Leave for a short period of time, go back 'home' and then try and file for a visitor visa again after a period of time. I think if you can show them that you did in fact leave Canada when you were refused that you are likely to follow 'orders' and do it again if you were granted another try. I can say with a fair bit of certainty, that if you do not leave and are deported that they will under no circumstances even grant you the chance and you will be adding not only time, but extra money to be spent (obtaining and ARC and such) to be granted your PR visa in the end.

Good luck with however you proceed.

 

[Harumi]

Thank you, Alurra71, for your quick reply. I modified the post; I have a visitor's visa valid until 2016, what I did run out of and what was refused extension and restoration was my visitor status; I stayed longer than the 6-month period we are allowed.

On the CIC website, a Departure Order seems to be a form, with a certain number. This is what it says:

Types of removal orders
There are three types of removal orders.

Look at the document you received from Citizenship and Immigration Canada or the Canada Border Services Agency before you left Canada. The form number will tell you the type of removal order.

1. Departure Order (form number IMM 5238)

a) If you received a Departure Order and

left Canada within the required 30 days and
verified your departure with a Canadian immigration officer at the port of exit
you do not need an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

b) If you left the country without verifying your departure, or more than 30 days after the Departure Order was issued, the Departure Order automatically becomes a Deportation Order and you need to apply for an ARC (see point 3 below).

2. Exclusion Order (form number IMM 1214B)

a) If you were issued an Exclusion Order and

12 months have passed since you left Canada and
you have a Certificate of Departure (IMM 0056B) showing the date you left Canada
you do not need an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

b) If you wish to return to Canada less than 12 months after the Exclusion Order was issued, or do not have a Certificate of Departure, you need to apply for an ARC.

3. Deportation Order (form number IMM 5238B)

If you have been the subject of a Deportation Order you will need to apply for an ARC.

Note: A Direction to Leave Canada (form number IMM1217B) is not a removal order. If you have been the subject of a Direction to Leave Canada, you do not need to apply for an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/arc.asp

And this description, when paired with the description in these forums, is confusing. I did not receive any of the forms/letters with the numbers they mention. It was just the refusal letter with a request to leave immediately. There is no fixed date for me to leave, neither instruction that after 30 days it becomes a deportation. One could think that what I received was a Direction to Leave Canada, although nowhere in the form it shows the number.

If it really is a departure order, then the first one I (should have) received in November 29, 2013, would have become a deportation order already. However, I did not receive the forms and documents I heard you are required to fill out in cases of removal orders. Neither was I contacted by anyone asking about flight arrangements. Then, could it be that I am still not under a removal order? I wonder if they are going to send these forms in paper later, or if they are ever going to send anything.

 

[Carlaganda23]

Thank you, Alurra71, for your quick reply. I modified the post; I have a visitor's visa valid until 2016, what I did run out of and what was refused extension and restoration was my visitor status; I stayed longer than the 6-month period we are allowed.

On the CIC website, a Departure Order seems to be a form, with a certain number. This is what it says:

Types of removal orders
There are three types of removal orders.

Look at the document you received from Citizenship and Immigration Canada or the Canada Border Services Agency before you left Canada. The form number will tell you the type of removal order.

1. Departure Order (form number IMM 5238)

a) If you received a Departure Order and

left Canada within the required 30 days and
verified your departure with a Canadian immigration officer at the port of exit
you do not need an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

b) If you left the country without verifying your departure, or more than 30 days after the Departure Order was issued, the Departure Order automatically becomes a Deportation Order and you need to apply for an ARC (see point 3 below).

2. Exclusion Order (form number IMM 1214B)

a) If you were issued an Exclusion Order and

12 months have passed since you left Canada and
you have a Certificate of Departure (IMM 0056B) showing the date you left Canada
you do not need an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

b) If you wish to return to Canada less than 12 months after the Exclusion Order was issued, or do not have a Certificate of Departure, you need to apply for an ARC.

3. Deportation Order (form number IMM 5238B)

If you have been the subject of a Deportation Order you will need to apply for an ARC.

Note: A Direction to Leave Canada (form number IMM1217B) is not a removal order. If you have been the subject of a Direction to Leave Canada, you do not need to apply for an ARC. You may return to Canada subject to normal examination at the port of entry.

cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/arc.asp

And this description, when paired with the description in these forums, is confusing. I did not receive any of the forms/letters with the numbers they mention. It was just the refusal letter with a request to leave immediately. There is no fixed date for me to leave, neither instruction that after 30 days it becomes a deportation. One could think that what I received was a Direction to Leave Canada, although nowhere in the form it shows the number.

If it really is a departure order, then the first one I (should have) received in November 29, 2013, would have become a deportation order already. However, I did not receive the forms and documents I heard you are required to fill out in cases of removal orders. Neither was I contacted by anyone asking about flight arrangements. Then, could it be that I am still not under a removal order? I wonder if they are going to send these forms in paper later, or if they are ever going to send anything.

Stay in the country. And wait for your inland approval. I received a letter same as you from CIC .

Goodluck and hope for the best

 

[Alurra71]

Wait, wait wait wait wait ... hold the phone for a second here....

Your passport holds a valid visitors visa until 2016? Is that correct?

You were only trying to extend your current 'visitation' after your initial 6 months visit?

If this is the case and I am understanding it correctly, go take a vacation. Go take it anywhere you like. Anywhere outside of Canada. Take your spouse along with you. Enjoy yourself. Take a trip back home for a week or two, but LEAVE Canada asap.

Your valid visa is going to help you. If you leave Canada now, you will resolve your status simply by doing that. If you take a vacation for a week or two outside of Canada and then try to return, you will LIKELY be allowed re admittance because you do hold a valid visa in your passport. I would however be sure to bring along tax forms or pay stubs from hubby to prove that he can support both of you if you stay for another 6 months. They might not allow you to stay that long again, but the odds are in your favor they will allow you to return if you resolve your current status on your own without their intervention at all.

As to your added information. Yes, you are correct, there are specific forms for what you are describing, however, their statement on your refusal can be seen as the same. They are telling you that you need to leave Canada. If this were me, I would do as they asked BEFORE they start with 'official' paperwork to ask me to leave again. Know what I mean?

 

[Alurra71]

Stay in the country. And wait for your inland approval. I received a letter same as you from CIC .

Goodluck and hope for the best

And if she gets deported before she gets an inland approval? Or for that matter, if YOU get deported before you get an Inland approval?

Those of you who choose to play roulette and hope that you will stay under the radar and won't become subject to removal from Canada, I don't understand that. If CBSA decides on a whim that you are in breach of status and decides to deport you, you do realize there is NOTHING you can do to stop them. There are no tricks, tips or magic spells to stop them. You will be deported, issued an exclusion order, and loose all that time on on your inland application. I wish you the best, but don't tell others it will be fine because you can't promise them that.

Why don't you take a look at this http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/very-urgent-rejected-refugee-claimant-but-spousal-sponsorship-in-process-t192643.0.html This gentleman is loosing everything as well. You can also look up some posts by VioletBlue. She is around here somewhere, I think, still. She managed to 'squeak' by, but then again, she has been very quiet lately so she may have been deported in the end as well.

 

[Carlaganda23]

And if she gets deported before she gets an inland approval? Or for that matter, if YOU get deported before you get an Inland approval?

Those of you who choose to play roulette and hope that you will stay under the radar and won't become subject to removal from Canada, I don't understand that. If CBSA decides on a whim that you are in breach of status and decides to deport you, you do realize there is NOTHING you can do to stop them. There are no tricks, tips or magic spells to stop them. You will be deported, issued an exclusion order, and loose all that time on on your inland application. I wish you the best, but don't tell others it will be fine because you can't promise them that.

Why don't you take a look at this http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/very-urgent-rejected-refugee-claimant-but-spousal-sponsorship-in-process-t192643.0.html This gentleman is loosing everything as well. You can also look up some posts by VioletBlue. She is around here somewhere, I think, still. She managed to 'squeak' by, but then again, she has been very quiet lately so she may have been deported in the end as well.

Hi alurra,

Thank you for your advice. I already talked to the CIC about it.

I knew few members here who were out of status for 8 months and just got her permanent residency.
Most of the time, the failed refugees were the ones who got into trouble with removal orders.

 

[Alurra71]

Hi alurra,

Thank you for your advice. I already talked to the CIC about it.

I knew few members here who were out of status for 8 months and just got her permanent residency.
Most of the time, the failed refugees were the ones who got into trouble with removal orders.

There is a difference between being out of status and off the radar or having letters denying you an extension on the radar, out of status. Those are TWO different animals. I don't know which you are, but I don't care what CIC call center says, they can't and won't help you if CBSA comes knocking.

Good luck to you though.

 

[Carlaganda23]

There is a difference between being out of status and off the radar or having letters denying you an extension on the radar, out of status. Those are TWO different animals. I don't know which you are, but I don't care what CIC call center says, they can't and won't help you if CBSA comes knocking.

Good luck to you though.

Yes, me and my partner were hoping for the best. I'm thinking positive though, hopefully I will get a reply back from CIC in Summer or Fall with my application.
My partner talked to the Supervisor in the CIC and put some notes into my files.

 

[Harumi]

Thank you again, Alurra71, good news are like water for the weary traveler.

Yes, I was granted a 3-year Visitor's Visa. Heck, I have a 10-year US visa and good history entering and leaving Europe. I even asked for less, just a simple 6-month, and would request again to come spend Christmas with him. Instead they just gave me a huge 3-year visa, multiple entries. Then my husband proposed; I took it all as signs from heavens and took this leap of faith! But apparently I am stumbling in my own good intentions in trying to send in the perfect application. In addition to the police certificates, I even got certificates from the Federal Court in Brazil to prove I am no threat to Canada. In fact, my application for extension was refused in the first place because the stamp proving I entered Canada was not clear enough. If I overstayed without applying for restoration, it was because of an unhappy incident with e-mails. They happen to glitch at the worst times. CIC cannot make an exception to that, I understand. I am trying my best to keep good records with Canada though! I was a perfect citizen in Brazil, where one would not have many motivations to be; I do not intend to be any different here!

So indeed, would a last-minute vacation with my husband help resolve the status? Would the officers at the border be understanding of this situation? For how long is it advised to stay away from Canada? A week?

If that be the case, so be it, I will book Vegas this weekend, if possible! I just want to be sure I can come back in, to resume our lives as husband and wife. We have plans of visiting his family on the coast for Easter, and I WANT to be there!

Does anyone else have an experience with flagpoling to resolve overstays?

 

[Alurra71]

Thank you again, Alurra71, good news are like water for the weary traveler.

Yes, I was granted a 3-year Visitor's Visa. Heck, I have a 10-year US visa and good history entering and leaving Europe. I even asked for less, just a simple 6-month, and would request again to come spend Christmas with him. Instead they just gave me a huge 3-year visa, multiple entries. Then my husband proposed; I took it all as signs from heavens and took this leap of faith! But apparently I am stumbling in my own good intentions in trying to send in the perfect application. In addition to the police certificates, I even got certificates from the Federal Court in Brazil to prove I am no threat to Canada. In fact, my application for extension was refused in the first place because the stamp proving I entered Canada was not clear enough. If I overstayed without applying for restoration, it was because of an unhappy incident with e-mails. They happen to glitch at the worst times. CIC cannot make an exception to that, I understand. I am trying my best to keep good records with Canada though! I was a perfect citizen in Brazil, where one would not have many motivations to be; I do not intend to be any different here!

So indeed, would a last-minute vacation with my husband help resolve the status? Would the officers at the border be understanding of this situation? For how long is it advised to stay away from Canada? A week?

If that be the case, so be it, I will book Vegas this weekend, if possible! I just want to be sure I can come back in, to resume our lives as husband and wife. We have plans of visiting his family on the coast for Easter, and I WANT to be there!

Does anyone else have an experience with flagpoling to resolve overstays?

I don't know if there is a specific 'time frame' you would need to be absent from Canada, but I do know that if you leave Canada it does indeed resolve your 'out of status' issues. Once you leave the country, you are no longer in breach and it all resets. The only thing I wish I could give you a better answer to is how long and if they would absolutely allow you back in. I know with your multiple entry visa and such and coming back with your spouse is a definite plus. I know it will require more than a mere 'flag-ploing' which for future reference usually just means jumping across the border then immediately back into Canada. I think you would definitely need to be out for longer than 10 minutes! LOL

I know if you can in fact get your application send in ASAP (I would still choose Outland if I were you just to be safe and not risk a loss of any sort based on another persons whims or bad days) or pay your fees at a minimum this would also help to show your CBSA guard you have full intentions of doing exactly what you must and you both fully intend to seek out your sponsorship by the book and as soon as you get all your paperwork together you will file it. Yes, you can pay early, however I don't suggest you do it like months and months early, but a few weeks won't hurt for sure!

I hope others can chime in here and help you out. I wish you the very best of luck!

 

[Harumi]

Oh, thank you for the correction; no we would not flagpole then. If we are leaving, and there is a chance things go wrong, we will make the best we can out of this outing. We would do at least a weekend. Also, processing times for Brazil Visa Offices are worse than inland processing times. The trip to Brazil is long and pricey and cannot be done in the last minute. Outland is an option, but might not be the best one in my case...

I now have two options (I might have more, once I manage to find a CIC agent in their Call Centre...):

1. Stay and send the application while being out of status. Risk: a removal procedure being started, being deported, and losing the application.
2. Go for a vacation to the US, resolve my overstay and reset my status and send in the application while in status, then remaining in the country under implied status. Risk: not being allowed in when our vacation is over even though I have a multiple-entry, 3-year visitor visa.

I like to believe they will let me in if my husband comes with me and we explain the situation, but for now, it is a gamble as much as option 1.

I will contact the CIC Call Centre tomorrow and figure out a plan of action. I will keep this thread updated. Big thanks to Alurra71 and Carlaganda23 for their quick replies. And thanks in advance to those who might bring in their advice!

 

[svetlana]

Harumi, my situation was the same as yours. I got a letter to leave Canada immediately, i did not leave and it turned into an exclusion order. I had an inland sponsorship too but it did not save me. My advice: go home, apply outland, you will save stress and 1 for outland passes very fast and there is skype..time flies very quick. Dont make things worse. CBSA wont be nice to u, even if u are married in Canada. Everuything will be very good and ypu will be again with your husbnad in canada

 

[Harumi]

I contacted the CIC Call Centre today and the advice was, simplified:

- leave the country
- apply outland
- you may try to re-enter, but that is the CBSA's decision
- intention to apply for an Inland Spousal Sponsorship is not a legitimate reason for entering Canada with a Visitor's visa (dual intent does not apply)
- even with the inland sponsorship application going, CBSA could still deport me, and the application would not protect me from them

Basically, two refusals and a call today might have put me on their radar; I cannot try to bypass this. An outland application would be the best option if I want to be permanently together with my husband soon. With an ongoing outland application and a valid visitor's visa, I can always enter Canada to visit him, then either try to extend my stay or leave as they request me to. It is a tricky dance, but maybe it is the best choice if we do not wish to be apart for long periods of time. More updates to come!

 

[Carlaganda23]

I contacted the CIC Call Centre today and the advice was, simplified:

- leave the country
- apply outland
- you may try to re-enter, but that is the CBSA's decision
- intention to apply for an Inland Spousal Sponsorship is not a legitimate reason for entering Canada with a Visitor's visa (dual intent does not apply)
- even with the inland sponsorship application going, CBSA could still deport me, and the application would not protect me from them

Basically, two refusals and a call today might have put me on their radar; I cannot try to bypass this. An outland application would be the best option if I want to be permanently together with my husband soon. With an ongoing outland application and a valid visitor's visa, I can always enter Canada to visit him, then either try to extend my stay or leave as they request me to. It is a tricky dance, but maybe it is the best choice if we do not wish to be apart for long periods of time. More updates to come!

Best of luck Harumi!

Keep us updated. I will let you know how my application go I'm hoping in 6 months or so. I will have a reply from CIC about my application.

Let us know how did it go on your end.